Dealing with Hackers: MCSG's Mistake

[Electrix]

That title made me feel like a tabloid writer . I apologize for probably making you mad at me. Basically, sorry that I felt like I needed to bring this up.
Seriously, don't hate me

What mistakes has MCSG made when dealing with hackers?

No hacker permabans
People who intentionally broke the rules by cheating and being a bad sport should not be permabanned because everybody deserves a fair chance of redemption.

This isn't reasonable. If a member is hacking, nobody wants them back in a week. This discourages players from reporting hackers through video evidence, and makes players feel like MCSG thinks that hackers are just "rule breakers" and not "Obsessed hackers that cheat on a block game."

No rewards for reporting hackers
People who are kind enough to take time out of their day to report hackers shouldn't be rewarded because then, it would become a competition to report the most hackers.

Again, not very reasonable. If you really want to get rid of hackers, at least put bounties on their heads. Imagine putting up a sign saying "Wanted: All Hackers. $0 Reward."

No cleansweeps for the network's largest region
We are currently testing out new solutions on our other regions.

So you want your biggest network to be ignored? And we haven't heard the devs talk about NCP for a long time, unless they are defending themselves about how "This takes time, and we are going to never give you updates." Ironically, the devs are working on new gamemodes that hardly anyone plays on. Even AntVenom doesn't care about the merge anymore.

The devs/admins ignoring this thread:
...it's simple, two entities spawn every 20-40 seconds up your head for a very short time, if you hit them both for 3 times (obviously before they despawn) you get automatically banned, I play on a Italian server that made this plugin and it works, (+700 ban) and just 10-15 ban appeals (On the first version of the plugin, when the plugin was not good at all)

Saimo made a thread a few months ago on an easy way to stop forcefield. It is getting practically nothing but positive comments. A few issues have been brought up, but they are shut down quickly. This thread has been basically ignored by devs and administrators, which are the two groups that this was targeted at.


So what the heck is going on? Why is the staff not realizing this mistake? I've died to hackers about 4 times today on the US servers alone. Something has to be done.

Logic: If MCSG wants more players, they should get rid of the hackers! Then, maybe half the community wouldn't quit and make "Goodbye" threads. I would list all the great people that have left this community (hackers are ALWAYS part of the reason), but that list would be way too long.

I'm sorry for complaining, but come on! Do something, staff!

P.S. Try not to hate me. When posting, feel free to argue, but try not to be rude to any members or staff.

 

[Lively]

No hacker permabans

I'd like to see first offense be lengthened, but I feel that as it currently stands, it works well. People often change, that's what the second chance is for. I know people personally who've made mistakes, like hacking, been banned for it and have been a perfect player since.

Also, I'd like to pose a question to you. If you ignore a hacker and don't report them, aren't you at fault just as much as them? You're just letting another hacker go scot free, without any warning or anything.

No rewards for reporting hackers

If we rewarded people for reporting hackers, there are two ways we could go about this. First, we only reward them if the person is actually banned. And second, we reward them if they report them at all. Both of these are problematic. The first solution would give us a ton of people arguing about how the mods don't know what they're doing because that guy was Clearly hacking and other things like that, when in reality they're just mad they aren't gonna be rewarded. The second solution is problematic because then people will record anyone randomly and report them for supposedly hacking. This would waste a lot of moderators' time as they'd have to sift through all the reports to find that one valid report.

No cleansweeps for the network's largest region

Not gonna comment on this one, as I've never participated in one, and, to be honest, I'm not sure how they work. And at this point, I'm too afraid to ask.

The devs/admins ignoring this thread:

Clearly they're ignoring it because they haven't responded right? Right? With that logic, they ignore you and 99% of the users on this website because they don't comment on your profile. It's called lurking. Watching and reading, but not responding. I bet you a nickel, they do read that thread so they can understand the community's perspective better.

 

[KiDD]

I see where you're coming from, that you may think that MCGamer is dealing with hackers improperly. Although, we deal with many hackers every day and players reporting them helps out a lot. As an avid MCSG player back in the day (still am now), reporting hackers and knowing they were being dealt with gave me a sense of pride, security, and satisfaction, and that was good enough a "reward". I'd agree on the ban lengths for hacking maybe to be extended, but there's a wide variety of reasons why a permaban on the first hacking offense isn't very reasonable. For example, I've seen a few players that don't know hacking is not allowed. If a player is ignorant enough to hack again after being banned, he/she will be permanently banned, which is reasonable. We give them a second chance, and if they take advantage they'll be punished.

 

[Tuatara]

You report players to make the community better and shouldn't get anything in return for it besides knowing the fact that you have one more of the hacker population banned.

 

[Scott]

Permanent Bans: Personally, I think that permanent first offense is a bit too harsh. I think that the ban time should be lengthened, but not a permanent ban. Some of the networks most important people have hacked and been banned for it. Because they weren't permanently banned, they came back and eventually worked on YouTube (to advertise) or even as staff (after 1 year of course). But on the other hand, many hackers have been permanently banned because they come back and hack. Maybe this would change if it was a bit longer, but remember moderators don't make the call on ban times.

Rewards for Reporting Hackers: I feel that you guys should be rewarded for reporting hackers, but I want to think of a way to do so. Obviously, VIP or Mod wouldn't be given out. I don't really think platinum or diamond will be either as it is too much of a reward. So, what if it was for 20+ reports and bans in one month you get iron, and if it was 50+ reports and bans in one month you would get gold. I like the idea, but we'd also have to have someone keep track of how many reports each person has received as many times there are 8-10 pages of reports daily and it would take hours to keep track of it all.

No Cleansweeps for the Network's Largest Regions: In US, MCGamer's largest region, a Cleansweep is being put together. I am going to contact the people who are working on it and see where that is going. In EU, MCGamer's second largest region, AlpakaWhacker, Nephilim, Axanite, mfungamer, and I already organize an operation. Information can be found here: http://www.minecraftsurvivalgames.com/threads/operation-eu-cleansweep-coming-back-soon.156199/. Finally, I don't think CA or AU need an official one, but @TheAverageTiger is organizing an unofficial Cleansweep in AU. All the way around, I think that statement was wrong because there are Cleansweeps in the largest regions.

The Devs/Admins Ignoring this Thread: Most the times, developers and administrators don't see threads as they are working on other things. There is a difference between not seeing it and ignoring it. Also, I like the idea, but that would also defeat the purpose of us moderators if it actually worked. I personally think that it might work, but the odds are rare for it to be completely bugless. Maybe if it just did a one minute auto-ban?

Finally, I just want to say the staff are doing stuff. I mean, we've organized many Cleansweeps, we're upgrading our reporting systems, and so much more. You just have to look at the big picture: Hackers are always going to be there; we can help by banning the ones we catch, but it is hard to catch every single hacker on the network. Also, let me add half the community hasn't left. Let's say we've seen 50 goodbye threads this month (which is higher than the actual amount of them). We've had 3,572 new players in the past 24 hours, which is more than have left in the last whole week. I'd say MCGamer's population is growing more than it is decreasing.

Thanks for reading, and please don't start flame.

 

[YourAverageTiger]

@TheAverageTiger

Your xD

We are going to go soon, organizing the google document is our final stage, and I am working on the fields to put in. First cleansweep will be this week.

And in the end, what Professor Scott said is true. MCGamer is growing and will continue like that for a while. People like Zeno where around since 2012 and haven't left. Thousands of people join per day.

 

[P3num6ra]

Hackers are the one and only problem currently in the server, that lead to more problems. For example, earlier yesterday I saw that some kid was flying around with his Huzuni which honestly made me laugh.

 

[Electrix]

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts! I wish I could reply to all of them, but I don't have the time.

I'd like to see first offense be lengthened, but I feel that as it currently stands, it works well. People often change, that's what the second chance is for. I know people personally who've made mistakes, like hacking, been banned for it and have been a perfect player since.

Clearly they're ignoring it because they haven't responded right? Right? With that logic, they ignore you and 99% of the users on this website because they don't comment on your profile. It's called lurking. Watching and reading, but not responding. I bet you a nickel, they do read that thread so they can understand the community's perspective better.

The first offense should definitely be lengthened, but for hackers only.

Speed Hacks, Fly Hacks, and Miscellaneous Hacks- 2 weeks
Auto-Crit- 2 and a half weeks
Forcefield, Aimbot, and KillAura- 3 weeks

This seems fair.

As for the "lurking," I think that this would have been implemented long ago if the devs saw it.

You report players to make the community better and shouldn't get anything in return for it besides knowing the fact that you have one more of the hacker population banned.

I'd be okay with this with /report or reporting posts on the forums, but Report Abuse? Seriously, I've spent hours just making videos and reporting hackers.

I have a few hacker videos that I'm getting lazy about. Why? Because Report Abuses don't feel like a relief to get a user banned. They feel like a job to me. I'm still trying to weigh it out on whether it's worth the effort or not. Many people have already made that decision: no.

If any thread gives a more fair reward to players than this thread, please tell me.

We are going to go soon, organizing the google document is our final stage, and I am working on the fields to put in. First cleansweep will be this week.

Thank you for your effort.

Hackers are the one and only problem currently in the server, that lead to more problems. For example, earlier yesterday I saw that some kid was flying around with his Huzuni which honestly made me laugh.

Yesterday a friend and I watched a KillAura hacker with a teammate run with his bow pulled, and then run while eating. The funniest part was when they ran into a 2 team of understacked pros. The 4 just stood there for 5 minutes, talking.

Here is the script. It is edited to make things more clear and some unnecessary parts are taken out, but the messages are the same. It's funny.

Spoiler: Fun

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pLciM6dT-fkQT-8hjBCY6Y3dv4nmqGFpILSDhmh2-vg

 

[Ceroria]

Well I'll admit I immediately took a slight offense when I read the title.

This isn't reasonable. If a member is hacking, nobody wants them back in a week. This discourages players from reporting hackers through video evidence, and makes players feel like MCSG thinks that hackers are just "rule breakers" and not "Obsessed hackers that cheat on a block game."

We believe in a second chance policy. Obviously people know that hacking is against the rules, but we have multiple cases in which players have been banned for hacking once, cleaned themselves up and are now extremely beneficiary members of our community, some are even active within the staff. Believe it or not, we had an intense discussion about this on Teamspeak about a week ago, regarding this policy and have made some progress in what we believe is the right direction (but nothing is certain yet). Also, this would increase (by an innumerable amount) the ban disputes that swarm into our network. Our Sr. Staff would struggle keeping up, and it would take even longer for a ban dispute to be looked at.

Also, most hackers are permabanned within a week of their first unban. I see it a lot. Trust me.

Again, not very reasonable. If you really want to get rid of hackers, at least put bounties on their heads. Imagine putting up a sign saying "Wanted: All Hackers. $0 Reward."

You're not required to report hackers, it's a voluntary thing. Do all rewards have to be materialized? If you don't report hackers because you're not getting money, a donor rank, or recognition, there is something definitely up with this world. Fun fact, not everything is about materialistic value. If you see somebody commit theft, will you just go "nah, I'm not going to tell the police because they won't pay me for it"? No.

So you want your biggest network to be ignored? And we haven't heard the devs talk about NCP for a long time, unless they are defending themselves about how "This takes time, and we are going to never give you updates." Ironically, the devs are working on new gamemodes that hardly anyone plays on. Even AntVenom doesn't care about the merge anymore.

Play on the US network alone for a day. Play about 5 games. Count the number of hackers you encounter. Then play on the EU network for a day. Play about 5 games. Count the number of hackers you encounter. Keep switching on and off for about a week. It will be blatantly clear, then, that there is a reason we focus all of our time into cleansweeps for EU. There was a US cleansweep a while back, but the two staff members tasked with running it were not able to continue what they were doing, unfortunately. I myself am actually considering taking this upon myself, but it'll have to wait about a month because I am so busy during February.

Saimo made a thread a few months ago on an easy way to stop forcefield. It is getting practically nothing but positive comments. A few issues have been brought up, but they are shut down quickly. This thread has been basically ignored by devs and administrators, which are the two groups that this was targeted at.

This is a good idea, it really is, but coding it in will literally take forever on top of what our administrative/developing team is already doing.

Try this from an Admin's perspective:
Get online, check the 20-30 PMs you've gotten regarding utterly pointless things like "I'm banned unbanned me unban!1!"
Check the support email, and the hundreds of emails it gets per day.
Check the Sr. Staff reported items section and deal with the reports about forum ban-evaders, etc.
Go on Teamspeak, receive the uncountable pokes per minute (unless you have Don't Poke), these pokes are things that are for regular moderators to do.
See the pattern?
On top of all of this, you have to manage your IRL life, because that is more important anyway.

How about a dev:
Pretty much the same stuff as an admin, besides less general management things. Slave over the new GitHub reports, and find the ones that are actually problematic. Try to come up with a way to fix it. Work on this for a while.
Work on sifting through bugs that prevent the Global Leaderboard Update from happening.
Check the reported bugs by the staff
Check the forums.
Watch as the constant abuse towards you saying how horrible you are and how you don't do anything piles on top. Look at all of the threads people are making saying how the plugins and completely custom anti-cheat system you spent almost a year on sucks, and then listen to peoples never ending complaints about how other servers are better.

Most of our administrative team is currently in their senior year of high school, or equivalencies in other countries and trying to frantically succeed in their schooling, swarmed by work, paperwork, applications, etc.

This is a game. Games are meant to be fun, not perfect. Play the game, and enjoy the game. Don't make it worse for yourself and others by saying how much it sucks. If it's so bad and you don't like it, don't play it.

 

[Electrix]

Well I'll admit I immediately took a slight offense when I read the title.

We believe in a second chance policy. Obviously people know that hacking is against the rules, but we have multiple cases in which players have been banned for hacking once, cleaned themselves up and are now extremely beneficiary members of our community, some are even active within the staff. Believe it or not, we had an intense discussion about this on Teamspeak about a week ago, regarding this policy and have made some progress in what we believe is the right direction (but nothing is certain yet). Also, this would increase (by an innumerable amount) the ban disputes that swarm into our network. Our Sr. Staff would struggle keeping up, and it would take even longer for a ban dispute to be looked at.

Also, most hackers are permabanned within a week of their first unban. I see it a lot. Trust me.

Ok, I guess the permaban thing basically got shut down. Everyone, please disregard it from now on.

You're not required to report hackers, it's a voluntary thing. Do all rewards have to be materialized? If you don't report hackers because you're not getting money, a donor rank, or recognition, there is something definitely up with this world. Fun fact, not everything is about materialistic value. If you see somebody commit theft, will you just go "nah, I'm not going to tell the police because they won't pay me for it"? No.

How to successfully report hackers on MCSG:
Film them. Get good evidence. Learn their name, and go fill out a template on the website.

How to successfully report crime IRL:
Call 911. Run.

If I could just immediately PM a mod ingame and get them to ban the hacker, then I would definitely do it without pay.
And if /report is just as effective as calling 911 is, then please make this fact known! It could save many innocent lives!!111

Play on the US network alone for a day. Play about 5 games. Count the number of hackers you encounter. Then play on the EU network for a day. Play about 5 games. Count the number of hackers you encounter. Keep switching on and off for about a week. It will be blatantly clear, then, that there is a reason we focus all of our time into cleansweeps for EU.

So the network with the most hackers should have cleansweeps. I understand that. But shouldn't every region have cleansweeps, with EU having more than the rest? I don't see a real downside.

There was a US cleansweep a while back, but the two staff members tasked with running it were not able to continue what they were doing, unfortunately. I myself am actually considering taking this upon myself, but it'll have to wait about a month because I am so busy during February.

Thanks you!

This is a good idea, it really is, but coding it in will literally take forever on top of what our administrative/developing team is already doing.

If you don't want the staff to be hated on, make that a No-No Suggestion so that we know this before we rant about it.

This is a game. Games are meant to be fun, not perfect. Play the game, and enjoy the game. Don't make it worse for yourself and others by saying how much it sucks. If it's so bad and you don't like it, don't play it.

I discuss issues not to make any problems worse, but to nail them head on. And hey, if nobody complained, nothing would ever be better.

Trust me, if you have read the "My Personality Type" in my signature, then know that I'm not a person who is going to live life without making a difference. Technically, I was born this way. Wait... Born This Way? That means...

MEAT DRESS TIME!!!

 

[Ceroria]

If I could just immediately PM a mod ingame and get them to ban the hacker, then I would definitely do it without pay.
And if /report is just as effective as calling 911 is, then please make this fact known! It could save many innocent lives!!111

The /report command is extremely effective, it sends the report to a list all moderators may see, and are required to check regularly, leading to the moderators following around the suspected hackers and dealing with them appropriately c:

 

[Electrix]

The /report command is extremely effective, it sends the report to a list all moderators may see, and are required to check regularly, leading to the moderators following around the suspected hackers and dealing with them appropriately c:

Does that mean that I can report a hacker mid-game and get them banned by deathmatch? Or is it more long term?

Oh my god, the hope you just gave me ( x 100,000)