Rule Loopholes - Not being taken seriously enough?

[Joel/MadDawg]

Thank you Dave and CAm for taking the time to respond to this. You are technically right that terms such as "eZ" "rekt" and "l2p" don't violate the rules, but that doesn't keep them from having negative meanings in the eyes of most community members. Unlike what CAm stated, I didn't start seeing these disrespectful terms in game until v2 (gg was common in v1 but was used in a respectful way, not to say "get good"). Rude terms like "eZ" are new and used in ways to deliberately bring people down. I don't let them bother me, but some people get extremely offended at their mentioning.

Now the real question: even those these terms are not punishable, why are senior mods saying them? So much of the community feels negatively about these sayings, so having staff members say them just makes mcgamer as a whole look insensitive to the ingame community. Lets make a real life example: a high executive in a company is caught on video taunting people in public about all the money he has. While the executive did not break the law, he represented his company poorly and made everyone in it look worse. The same could be said about this situation: Bowser and Krypton did not break the rules, but they did something bad in the eyes of the community and made the whole staff team look worse for it.

My point? Sure, Bowser and Krypton didn't break the rules, but they represented the staff team poorly and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Devblock]

I don't think these terms should be at all punishable, but that's not to say I do not think the two Sr. Moderators in question acted correctly. (Don't get me wrong - that was absolutely unnecessary and definitely underhanded.)

 

[Mooclan]

Before you go and try to say something about me being rude/disrespectful, I am aware of General Rule 1, "Respect all staff members and their decisions."
I'm trying to change your mind, not piss you off. I'm not back-talking, I'm trying to have a discussion/debate.

things like gg and all that have been in this community since the start and until now no one have complained i feel as stated is my response mooclan posted its really really silly to let that sort of thing effect you it is in no way offensive its just bad sportsman ship that is all.

Edit: also Mooclan why are you only tagging cam and col?

The term "GG" originates from the phrase "Good Game".
Nowadays, it means "Get Good", or is simply used sarcastically. There are instances in which it is still meant as "Good Game", but it is much rarer than the new alternative. Its connotation has gone from positive to beyond negative.

It's in no way offensive? How can you decide what is or is not offensive to a person?
I'll say right now - I HAVE taken offense at people saying things such as "gg l2p rekt" to me. In fact, someone said that exact quote to me, and I was very ticked off.
You're what, 19 years old? Well guess what, not everyone is as old as you. I'm 15, and there are kids as young as eleven years old that I have met.
I was recently in my local library, and saw a 9-year old playing MCSG. I walked up to him and started talking to him about MCSG, and slipped in a few questions about chat abuse, and he responded saying that it made him sad whenever someone insulted him.
It's not silly - it's natural. If someone walked up to you in the real world and said "Get good, learn to live, you got rekt" in an insulting attitude, wouldn't any ordinary person get ticked off?

As for why I tagged CAm and Col, I didn't realize it particularly mattered. I know your dyslexia makes it a bit of a pain for you to write responses, and it can, in some instances, make it a bit hard for an understanding to be reached on both sides. Col and CAm are, in my opinion, better suited to handling this sort of reply. I mean no offense to you, but Col and CAm are generally better at conveying messages via typing.

nothing will happen to Bowser52000 and Krypton as (for the 39th time yes I have been counting how many times i have to say it) IT IS NOT against the rules.

I feel as though they should see this thread, and learn from it. They are both (now) Senior Moderators, and they are expected to have the best behavior, and set an example.

It comes as no surprise to me that they won't face any sort of consequences, but it would be good for them to learn from their mistake, and avoid a repeat. It would be downright shameful if another Senior Moderator, or even them again, were to be seen with such behavior.
Do you really want some of your highest-ranking staff members to set a bar so low for "acceptable behavior"?
Just because it's not a violation of the rule, according to you, doesn't mean that it's acceptable.

So, here's the situation: Bowser, Krypton, and one other Moderator were in a 3-team. They fought a lone player, and killed her after she took out Bowser. Bowser then said "rekt", and Krypton said "gg" and "eZ". Anyone with half of a brain can tell Krypton didn't actually mean "good game" when he said 'GG', particularly because of his "eZ" that accompanied it.
Dave, if you were 3-teamed by regular members while Livestreaming, took out one, and then died, wouldn't you be a bit disappointed? Now, if two of the teammates said "gg rekt eZ" to you, what would you do? Staff members have banned and kicked other players for this. What makes Krypton and Bowser immune to this?

Yet again, I must emphasize that staff members must have the highest standard of morals, respect, and attitude. What was shown in the screenshot is, as described in your own way, very poor sportsmanship.

Thank you Dave and CAm for taking the time to respond to this. You are technically right that terms such as "eZ" "rekt" and "l2p" don't violate the rules, but that doesn't keep them from having negative meanings in the eyes of most community members. Unlike what CAm stated, I didn't start seeing these disrespectful terms in game until v2 (gg was common in v1 but was used in a respectful way, not to say "get good"). Rude terms like "eZ" are new and used in ways to deliberately bring people down. I don't let them bother me, but some people get extremely offended at their mentioning.

Now the real question: even those these terms are not punishable, why are senior mods saying them? So much of the community feels negatively about these sayings, so having staff members say them just makes mcgamer as a whole look insensitive to the ingame community. Lets make a real life example: a high executive in a company is caught on video taunting people in public about all the money he has. While the executive did not break the law, he represented his company poorly and made everyone in it look worse. The same could be said about this situation: Bowser and Krypton did not break the rules, but they did something bad in the eyes of the community and made the whole staff team look worse for it.

My point? Sure, Bowser and Krypton didn't break the rules, but they represented the staff team poorly and should be dealt with accordingly.

This post is very good at explaining the situation ^ Thank you Joel.

As I'm going to say here as I just woke up, Dave did essentially cover the situation. These kinds of sayings (gg, g3t r3kt, l2p) have been around since the beginning of MCSG. As a reliable source (since I've been here since the beginning of MCSG); its always been said. In any sort of competitive scenario, bad sportsmanship arises. Wether thats just people uselessly taunting you; or a complete rage in chat with hacker accusations and vulgar language. It will arise in any sort of competitive situation. For example, the xbox live call of duty sandbox? You will always here something inappropriate there; as its a very common place competitive scenario. We cannot and will not force good sportsmanship; unlike how coaches make you shake hands of the opposing sports team. This is the internet where people maliciously hide behind the anonymity that comes with an online game. Wether or not its against the rules, it will still happen in the frequency that it occurs now. At MCGamer, we will not force something that either goes against someones own personality over something so incredibly trivial. If your really insulted by these kinds of sayings said by someone anonymous over the internet, I suggest a fresh perspective on your self worth centers. Furthermore, these kinds of sayings will only stop should the people who say them decide to stop.

As for Bowser and Krypton; they will not be receiving any sort of reprimandation, as simply they haven't broken any of our rules. However, what I can say; is that the situation will be further reviewed to see if anything else was said, and *if deemed necessary* will be acted on.

That "We cannot and will not force good sportsmanship" part is bugging me.
(http://prntscr.com/4a6o4y)

"We want people in our community to feel safe and respected"
Yeah, anyone can get where I'm going with that. Being told "Get good, learn to play, get rekt 10-hearted" isn't being respected, it's the exact opposite.
"If you are caught harassing others, you may risk being permanently removed from our community."
So, the threat is there. The punishment is laid out. And yet, two Senior Moderators are allowed to harass a single player after she kills one of them then dies to their team of three? Sure, it was only three messages sent, but the implied meaning is there. Why are they not even warned? I don't expect them to be demoted for such a trivial matter, as that would be absurdly severe, but something has to change.
"Do not antagonize other members"
Well gee, Bowser and Krypton pretty much provoked the member(s) to post the screenshot of them abusing the players.
-.-

CAm, I have the utmost respect for you, but this is simply absurd.
The issue here is not that it's two staff members who said it, but that anyone is allowed to say it without any sort of consequences. The fact that two Senior Moderators said it is just adding salt to the wound, making the issue bigger than it already was.
Yes, this is a game about killing 24 other tributes, but... MINECRAFT IS STILL A GAME THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN. Why are you allowing an atmosphere that allows such disrespectful, blatant insults?

We cannot and will not force good sportsmanship; unlike how coaches make you shake hands of the opposing sports team. This is the internet where people maliciously hide behind the anonymity that comes with an online game. Wether or not its against the rules, it will still happen in the frequency that it occurs now.

And yet you can and will force a rule against hacking? Against block-glitching? Spamming?
Hacking is against the rules, yet hackers are still present in abundance. Block-glitching is against the rules, and yet people block-glitch every day, sometimes even in the same game as a Moderator. People blatantly spam in front of Moderators every day in the Hub.




Really, it's disappointing. I've been playing MCSG since 2012, and the atmosphere in-game is incredibly awful compared to how it was back then. Yes, there are worse, but that doesn't make this any better.

Edit: As Admins, you have the power to make improvements to MCGamer as a whole. Please, do so.
Edit 2: and don't bother deleting this thread/post. I have it saved.

 

[Ephiza]

Mooclan , no offense, but more 6 year olds constantly swear vulgar things in COD in Xbox live.

 

[Mooclan]

Mooclan , no offense, but more 6 year olds constantly swear vulgar things in COD in Xbox live.

Does that mean that MCSG is any better now that we've been graced with the knowledge that COD has a worse community? No, its still bad.

 

[Ephiza]

Does that mean that MCSG is any better now that we've been graced with the knowledge that COD has a worse community? No, its still bad.

I agree, but I was just talking about the thing where you said the game was made for 9 year olds. COD was made for 17 year olds, yet 6 year olds still play it. Heck, I've seen 4 year olds saying vulgar things. But on the bright side, we are better than 2 communities. Zincbox, and COD.

 

[Mooclan]

I agree, but I was just talking about the thing where you said the game was made for 9 year olds. COD was made for 17 year olds, yet 6 year olds still play it. Heck, I've seen 4 year olds saying vulgar things. But on the bright side, we are better than 2 communities. Zincbox, and COD.

4? Are you completely sure about that?

..... some of them are still learning to speak by that age o.o Odds are, they didn't know exactly what they were saying.

 

[Twee]

This is why I love you, Moo.

But seriously, nice job Moo!

 

[Ephiza]

4? Are you completely sure about that?

..... some of them are still learning to speak by that age o.o Odds are, they didn't know exactly what they were saying.

Yeah. But if you want some proof, check out MinnesotaBurns' channel. He does COD trolling videos.

Before you go and try to say something about me being rude/disrespectful, I am aware of General Rule 1, "Respect all staff members and their decisions."
I'm trying to change your mind, not piss you off. I'm not back-talking, I'm trying to have a discussion/debate.



The term "GG" originates from the phrase "Good Game".
Nowadays, it means "Get Good", or is simply used sarcastically. There are instances in which it is still meant as "Good Game", but it is much rarer than the new alternative. Its connotation has gone from positive to beyond negative.

It's in no way offensive? How can you decide what is or is not offensive to a person?
I'll say right now - I HAVE taken offense at people saying things such as "gg l2p rekt" to me. In fact, someone said that exact quote to me, and I was very ticked off.
You're what, 19 years old? Well guess what, not everyone is as old as you. I'm 15, and there are kids as young as eleven years old that I have met.
I was recently in my local library, and saw a 9-year old playing MCSG. I walked up to him and started talking to him about MCSG, and slipped in a few questions about chat abuse, and he responded saying that it made him sad whenever someone insulted him.
It's not silly - it's natural. If someone walked up to you in the real world and said "Get good, learn to live, you got rekt" in an insulting attitude, wouldn't any ordinary person get ticked off?

As for why I tagged CAm and Col, I didn't realize it particularly mattered. I know your dyslexia makes it a bit of a pain for you to write responses, and it can, in some instances, make it a bit hard for an understanding to be reached on both sides. Col and CAm are, in my opinion, better suited to handling this sort of reply. I mean no offense to you, but Col and CAm are generally better at conveying messages via typing.



I feel as though they should see this thread, and learn from it. They are both (now) Senior Moderators, and they are expected to have the best behavior, and set an example.

It comes as no surprise to me that they won't face any sort of consequences, but it would be good for them to learn from their mistake, and avoid a repeat. It would be downright shameful if another Senior Moderator, or even them again, were to be seen with such behavior.
Do you really want some of your highest-ranking staff members to set a bar so low for "acceptable behavior"?
Just because it's not a violation of the rule, according to you, doesn't mean that it's acceptable.

So, here's the situation: Bowser, Krypton, and one other Moderator were in a 3-team. They fought a lone player, and killed her after she took out Bowser. Bowser then said "rekt", and Krypton said "gg" and "eZ". Anyone with half of a brain can tell Krypton didn't actually mean "good game" when he said 'GG', particularly because of his "eZ" that accompanied it.
Dave, if you were 3-teamed by regular members while Livestreaming, took out one, and then died, wouldn't you be a bit disappointed? Now, if two of the teammates said "gg rekt eZ" to you, what would you do? Staff members have banned and kicked other players for this. What makes Krypton and Bowser immune to this?

Yet again, I must emphasize that staff members must have the highest standard of morals, respect, and attitude. What was shown in the screenshot is, as described in your own way, very poor sportsmanship.


This post is very good at explaining the situation ^ Thank you Joel.


That "We cannot and will not force good sportsmanship" part is bugging me.
(http://prntscr.com/4a6o4y)

"We want people in our community to feel safe and respected"
Yeah, anyone can get where I'm going with that. Being told "Get good, learn to play, get rekt 10-hearted" isn't being respected, it's the exact opposite.
"If you are caught harassing others, you may risk being permanently removed from our community."
So, the threat is there. The punishment is laid out. And yet, two Senior Moderators are allowed to harass a single player after she kills one of them then dies to their team of three? Sure, it was only three messages sent, but the implied meaning is there. Why are they not even warned? I don't expect them to be demoted for such a trivial matter, as that would be absurdly severe, but something has to change.
"Do not antagonize other members"
Well gee, Bowser and Krypton pretty much provoked the member(s) to post the screenshot of them abusing the players.
-.-

CAm, I have the utmost respect for you, but this is simply absurd.
The issue here is not that it's two staff members who said it, but that anyone is allowed to say it without any sort of consequences. The fact that two Senior Moderators said it is just adding salt to the wound, making the issue bigger than it already was.
Yes, this is a game about killing 24 other tributes, but... MINECRAFT IS STILL A GAME THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN. Why are you allowing an atmosphere that allows such disrespectful, blatant insults?


And yet you can and will force a rule against hacking? Against block-glitching? Spamming?
Hacking is against the rules, yet hackers are still present in abundance. Block-glitching is against the rules, and yet people block-glitch every day, sometimes even in the same game as a Moderator. People blatantly spam in front of Moderators every day in the Hub.




Really, it's disappointing. I've been playing MCSG since 2012, and the atmosphere in-game is incredibly awful compared to how it was back then. Yes, there are worse, but that doesn't make this any better.

Edit: As Admins, you have the power to make improvements to MCGamer as a whole. Please, do so.
Edit 2: and don't bother deleting this thread/post. I have it saved.

Edit: The G33ke post turned into the moo post...again

 

[KorStonesword]

"Keep the chat PG" This does NOT mean PG-13. Yes there may be a swear filter, but be creative! Take into account slang, don't follow a tiny list of like 20 words, staff members! If someone is creatively insulting someone by calling them a yellow-bellied whale-sized pig with an acorn for brains, I'm 99% sure that isn't allowed.
Also, phrases like "WTF" and "Goddammit". WTF = What the f***. "God damn it/Goddammit" applies to like rule #4 as well, I believe... censor maybe?

I think that's quite silly tbh. Firstly, your example in almost every situation would be taken as something silly, and second it contains no profanity. I'm pretty sure that you can get away with saying that in a PG movie.

Yes, I do think that the rule needs refining, particularly because I've heard words such as
'Bi***' 'Bas****' and more used in PG movies.

I personally don't consider one line of insulting text to be anything worthy of a report or ban. I will only report someone if they persist in harassing me, being rude, and bypassing chat filters.

P.S
I have a question for mods. Is using swear avoidance text allowed (examples: 'aw s#$@' 'oh @&$#') because every time I've seen it used the mods provide a warning not to swear. It's true it might be the swear-stopping plugin, but then again they might just be using those symbols, as it's not altogether uncommon.

 

[Ephiza]

Yes, I do think that the rule needs refining, particularly because I've heard words such as
'Bi***' 'Bas****' and more used in PG movies.

How I met your mother uses worse, and on Netflix it's rated PG...

 

[AriSocrates]

things like gg and all that have been in this community since the start and until now no one have complained i feel as stated is my response mooclan posted its really really silly to let that sort of thing effect you it is in no way offensive its just bad sportsman ship that is all.

Edit: also Mooclan why are you only tagging cam and col?

I don't understand why you can't be open to these opinions and changing the rules. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it right. Not everyone has the same mindset to just ignore the rage, and if this is causing unhappiness and depression within the users of your network, it must be changed. Also, if you're expecting them to ignore these hurtful insults, then why don't you just expect players to ignore regular chat abuse, considering that some people can handle it? You can't set these double-standards.