Rule Loopholes - Not being taken seriously enough?

[Mint_Sibs]

I love being DDoS'd it makes me feel loved

I feel like ddosing just means a whole bunch of people send mail to my mail box, and then it's too full and it can't do anything! So basically I'm fkn popular if I'm getting hit off amirite?

 

[Mooclan]

Well how would you ever find it offensive if you never play in-game... .-.

I played a game for the first time in a long time a few days ago, and I died to a team of two. You know what they said? One of them said "ez". My first game in like, a month, and it happened to me. Needless to say, I /qq'ed.

 

[PuffyCottonCandy]

And you aren't allowed to say "you suck at minecraft" but saying eZ, rekt, and get good obviously is in no way similar to "you suck"..?

 

[Edog]

I played a game for the first time in a long time a few days ago, and I died to a team of two. You know what they said? One of them said "ez". My first game in like, a month, and it happened to me. Needless to say, I /qq'ed.

Not talking about you, talking about the Sr.Staff

 

[Mooclan]

Not talking about you, talking about the Sr.Staff

Oh. ._. Oops.

 

[BitoBain]

I feel like there are some rules that you only have to follow if you want to be seen as a good person. These rules mainly include exploits such as block glitching, leaving the map, using an enderpearl in pre-game to loot all the chests, abusing redstone, blocking arrows as a spectator, breaking item frames, etc... (Yesterday I saw a guy who tried to light me on fire through some glass. Luckily, he missed.) Why are these things rules if they have never been enforced?

I honestly block glitch sometimes because I get stuck in holes. I don't see what's so wrong with escaping a hole when I get stuck. The rules never said you couldn't escape a hole, they only said that you couldn't block-glitch to get to a new place. However, the rule is sometimes stated simply as "No block glitching!" I could see how accessing a secret portion of the map could be bad, though. Block glitching and other exploits are so easy to do and nobody really follows them unless they are someone that wants to look like a good law-abider. A better solution would be simply installing the plug-in that the Hive has, where you can't even mine blocks. MCSG has already taken the excellent step of ridding item frame glitching from the servers, which makes it a lot easier to win on Teweran SG 2. Hopefully that kind of action continues.

 

[darkai202]

I feel like ddosing just means a whole bunch of people send mail to my mail box, and then it's too full and it can't do anything! So basically I'm fkn popular if I'm getting hit off amirite?

thats kinda true

that means im really popular right?

 

[boboy1999]

I do not feel that words like "eZ" "Rekt" should not be punishable. People need to be tough and not make a big deal of it. It should not make any one feel bad or get angry, you should just ignore it and move on. It is border line abuse and it is not that bad to be banned for it. Abuse is if you are cursing or saying they are stupid multiple times. I don't think saying eZ should get you banned. But if you say "eZ get Rekt you stupid moron" then it is abuse. But come on guys it is not a big deal. It is just my opinion and please don't hate. Everyone can give their opinion and I thought this was a safe place to do so.

 

[Mooclan]

I feel like there are some rules that you only have to follow if you want to be seen as a good person. These rules mainly include exploits such as block glitching, leaving the map, using an enderpearl in pre-game to loot all the chests, abusing redstone, blocking arrows as a spectator, breaking item frames, etc... (Yesterday I saw a guy who tried to light me on fire through some glass. Luckily, he missed.) Why are these things rules if they have never been enforced?

I honestly block glitch sometimes because I get stuck in holes. I don't see what's so wrong with escaping a hole when I get stuck. The rules never said you couldn't escape a hole, they only said that you couldn't block-glitch to get to a new place. However, the rule is sometimes stated simply as "No block glitching!" I could see how accessing a secret portion of the map could be bad, though. Block glitching and other exploits are so easy to do and nobody really follows them unless they are someone that wants to look like a good law-abider. A better solution would be simply installing the plug-in that the Hive has, where you can't even mine blocks. MCSG has already taken the excellent step of ridding item frame glitching from the servers, which makes it a lot easier to win on Teweran SG 2. Hopefully that kind of action continues.

Concerning block glitching to escape holes:

Dave himself (The admin) said that Admins were in fact supposed to teleport people out of inescapable traps, and that those traps are not actually supposed to be there. He said this after someone brought up the fact that he had teleported a clanmate out of a trap during a clan battle.
The issue with this is that Admins can't do that all the time - they can't be there in every server, all the time. So instead, people just blockglitch. It has the SAME effect, but it's not allowed.
So basically, if inescapable holes aren't supposed to exist in MCSG, why are people not allowed to use whatever is available to them to escape? There should probably be an addition to the rules saying that using Blockglitches to escape like 2-block holes is allowed, otherwise it's just nonsense - OR, just remove all of the traps that aren't even supposed to be there in the first place. -.-

Edit:

I do not feel that words like "eZ" "Rekt" should not be punishable. People need to be tough and not make a big deal of it. It should not make any one feel bad or get angry, you should just ignore it and move on. It is border line abuse and it is not that bad to be banned for it. Abuse is if you are cursing or saying they are stupid multiple times. I don't think saying eZ should get you banned. But if you say "eZ get Rekt you stupid moron" then it is abuse. But come on guys it is not a big deal. It is just my opinion and please don't hate. Everyone can give their opinion and I thought this was a safe place to do so.

A large part of the issue that I'm trying to raise in this thread is the fact that by examining the rules closely, I was able to argue that it already IS punishable, and yet people haven't been getting punished for it.
Nevertheless, you do bring valid points to the table.

 

[roguehh]

Brace yourselves for a huuuuuuuugeeee rant
I apologize in advance for the things you may read. I tried to keep it relatively tame, although it's something that I've tried making a video on like three times in the past two days, and it hasn't worked out, so I'm just going to make a thread on it. But keep in mind, the video was a lot more.. emphatic.
Keep in mind that I've never been a super good thread-poster.


[/rant]
Hello,
If you play MCSG, as the majority of us do (lol, except me), then you know that terms such as "Get Good", "Rekt", "eZ", and other terms are quite common on the MCG servers, particularly Survival Games-styled gamemodes (SG, QQ, SGC.)
For a while now, they've gone unpunished, as far as I know. I've never even heard of people being warned for this.
Why? Why have they gone unpunished, and not dealt with in any way? Sure, someone may have tried to a few times, but as far as I know, nothing major came of it.

However, I was going through the MCSG rules a few weeks ago, and read this:
(Link: http://gyazo.com/f1e202206443445ed56cb570c3d83ae7)

Okay, let's start with Rule #2.
"We want people in our community to feel safe and respected."
Hmm, let me think of ways that people are not safe or respected... oh wait, I already have a list.

• DDoSing and DoSing. It happens all the time in the clan scene, and yet it's never been punished. Why? Is it because it's not proven or anything...? Like seriously, get some proof, do some investigating.
• "eZ" "Rekt" - Yeah, uh... Do you really think being told they're "eZ" to kill makes people feel respected? Hah, no. Not at all. Why isn't this punishable? There are KIDS on this game!

"Harassment is taken very seriously" and "You may risk being permanently removed from our community".... yeah.. that's only in super extreme cases. What about these things? By picking apart the rule, I came to the conclusion that harassment is a permanent ban, and yet people aren't even warned for these things. Yo, MCGamer! Step up your game!
"Spreading rumors is not allowed" Okay... uh.......... Let's take a moment to think about some rumors that have been circulated in the past... I would mention specifics, but then I could be accused of spreading them even further, so unfortunately I can't. But I'm sure a lot of you know what some are.
"Stalking a player around the servers and constantly targeting them is considered harassment" Uhm, HugBabybear? Hello? I was in a stream run by DoUEvenShift, and Hug and like five of her friends watched the stream and targeted him. We called in a Moderator, and they said it WASN'T harassment. What the fluff? Hug's excuses were like "oh, we happened to be in the same server at the time" and "We're allowed to watch the stream and follow the streamer" Well... not if you're targeting him...FOR LIKE TWO HOURS. Remember the rule that says that harassment can merit a permanent removal, and that targeting is harassment? OK? OK.

Rule #3:
"Keep the chat PG" This does NOT mean PG-13. Yes there may be a swear filter, but be creative! Take into account slang, don't follow a tiny list of like 20 words, staff members! If someone is creatively insulting someone by calling them a yellow-bellied whale-sized pig with an acorn for brains, I'm 99% sure that isn't allowed.
Also, phrases like "WTF" and "Goddammit". WTF = What the f***. "God damn it/Goddammit" applies to like rule #4 as well, I believe... censor maybe?

[/rantover]
Edit: They'll probably see this eventually, but Col_StaR and CAm

These aren't exactly loopholes. But I agree with you that most of this behavior should be punished under the current rules. But there's a difference between a loophole and how the staff chooses to enforce the rules.

"Get Good", "Rekt", "eZ"
It's nothing new that the staff doesn't usually punish or warn players for saying these words occasionally. There have been discussions about this before. That doesn't mean the staff can't punish players for this behavior when it gets out of hand. In fact, under certain circumstances this is punishable with a kick or even a ban. As the rules say: "Do not antagonize other members or staff members in order to evoke any specific reaction to the point of including up to abusive reactions." And staff members do punish and warn players if needed. See what these moderators have to say about it.

I'm not sure if most mods view it as abuse, therefore taking action when it occurs, but I certainly do. Maybe not a kick all the time, depending on the situation, but at least a warning should be given.

GG is different. The meaning is open to interpretation. But as for things like "get rekt" and that kind of stuff, that is what I classify as abuse, because some people will take it as abuse. It's never positive. It doesn't matter if not everyone takes it that way, it's still with the intent to insult and try to make the other player feel bad. It might just annoy them, sure, but it could really hurt their feelings, which should not be tolerated. Just an opinion of a long-time moderator who's seen this community grow and change.

Well to get back on topic, here are my thoughts. If you had the choice between someone saying "get rekd" after killing you, or that person saying nothing at all, everyone would pick nothing at all. No one likes when someone says that to you. Some may tolerate it, but no one likes it. So why allow something that no one likes? Since no one likes it and some people hate it, there is no reason for insults like this to be allowed.

DDoSing and DoSing
I don't exactly know where you're going with this. DDoSing is punishable. And it is punished harshly. But, of course, there needs to be proof. This is not a loophole or even a matter of enforcement. It's a question of whether or not there's enough evidence. And that's a practical matter that needs to be decided on a case by case basis.

Harassment is a permanent ban

By picking apart the rule, I came to the conclusion that harassment is a permanent ban

How did you come to this conclusion? The rules only say "you may risk being permanently removed". It doesn't say this is always necessary.

"Spreading rumors is not allowed"
Are you saying this isn't being enforced? I'm pretty sure this behavior can be classified as abuse in certain circumstances.

"Stalking a player around the servers and constantly targeting them is considered harassment"
This behavior is also punishable. But you're referring to a specific case involving a streamer. I don't think this is the right place to discuss individual cases. About the enforcement of this rule in general in case of streamers I will say that I believe that streamers assume the risk of being targeted by streaming. They also have the benefit of fans following them around and teaming with them or receiving items from them. It's just part of being a streamer. I'm not saying that streamers have no rights when it comes to being targeted, but there should be a very high threshold before players get punished for following and targeting a streamer. Also, an easy solution would be to set a delay of a few minutes so the streamer can't be followed in-game by the players watching their stream.

"Keep the chat PG"
The swear filter isn't designed to catch everything. That's why we have staff members. And they do take slang into account. And with a staff as diverse as ours, they even take into account slang in foreign languages. I know many examples from my time as a staff member and I have personally punished players for using offensive Dutch slang.

TL;DR
A lot of the points you bring up aren't loopholes. The rules are not absolutely precise. Nor should they be. They need to avoid excessive rigidity and to keep pace with changing circumstances. This inevitably means that they are couched in terms which, to a greater or lesser extent, are vague. It all comes down to the interpretation and application of the rules by the staff, what they choose to enforce and how they choose to enforce them.

In the thread title you write "Not being taken seriously enough?". I can assure you that the staff takes every offense (whether it be reported in an abuse report, poke on ts or witnessed by a staff member in-game) very seriously. But keep in mind that all decisions are made on a case by case basis. One decision by a staff member you don't agree with doesn't mean the rule itself isn't effective.

 

[Joel/MadDawg]

Quite honestly, I don't see how saying "eZ" or "rekt" will become a serious offense overnight. Terms like these have become a part of the mcsg in-game community (for good or bad) and are used by thousands of players. To start harshly punishing them for saying things like "eZ" all of a sudden would be unfair to them. If we had punished people who said these phrases back when they were new it would be fair to punish them now. But since they went unpunished for so long they have become a part of mcsg, and it would be unfair to start enforcing them now.

 

[Mooclan]

These aren't exactly loopholes. But I agree with you that most of this behavior should be punished under the current rules. But there's a difference between a loophole and how the staff chooses to enforce the rules.

"Get Good", "Rekt", "eZ"
It's nothing new that the staff doesn't usually punish or warn players for saying these words occasionally. There have been discussions about this before. That doesn't mean the staff can't punish players for this behavior when it gets out of hand. In fact, under certain circumstances this is punishable with a kick or even a ban. As the rules say: "Do not antagonize other members or staff members in order to evoke any specific reaction to the point of including up to abusive reactions." And staff members do punish and warn players if needed. See what these moderators have to say about it.






DDoSing and DoSing
I don't exactly know where you're going with this. DDoSing is punishable. And it is punished harshly. But, of course, there needs to be proof. This is not a loophole or even a matter of enforcement. It's a question of whether or not there's enough evidence. And that's a practical matter that needs to be decided on a case by case basis.

Harassment is a permanent ban

How did you come to this conclusion? The rules only say "you may risk being permanently removed". It doesn't say this is always necessary.

"Spreading rumors is not allowed"
Are you saying this isn't being enforced? I'm pretty sure this behavior can be classified as abuse in certain circumstances.

"Stalking a player around the servers and constantly targeting them is considered harassment"
This behavior is also punishable. But you're referring to a specific case involving a streamer. I don't think this is the right place to discuss individual cases. About the enforcement of this rule in general in case of streamers I will say that I believe that streamers assume the risk of being targeted by streaming. They also have the benefit of fans following them around and teaming with them or receiving items from them. It's just part of being a streamer. I'm not saying that streamers have no rights when it comes to being targeted, but there should be a very high threshold before players get punished for following and targeting a streamer. Also, an easy solution would be to set a delay of a few minutes so the streamer can't be followed in-game by the players watching their stream.

"Keep the chat PG"
The swear filter isn't designed to catch everything. That's why we have staff members. And they do take slang into account. And with a staff as diverse as ours, they even take into account slang in foreign languages. I know many examples from my time as a staff member and I have personally punished players for using offensive Dutch slang.

TL;DR
A lot of the points you bring up aren't loopholes. The rules are not absolutely precise. Nor should they be. They need to avoid excessive rigidity and to keep pace with changing circumstances. This inevitably means that they are couched in terms which, to a greater or lesser extent, are vague. It all comes down to the interpretation and application of the rules by the staff, what they choose to enforce and how they choose to enforce them.

In the thread title you write "Not being taken seriously enough?". I can assure you that the staff takes every offense (whether it be reported in an abuse report, poke on ts or witnessed by a staff member in-game) very seriously. But keep in mind that all decisions are made on a case by case basis. One decision by a staff member you don't agree with doesn't mean the rule itself isn't effective.

I must admit, I'm pretty dang sure you just beat me on like 50 levels. I really appreciate your criticism, it helps show me just how crazy I was when making this thread.
And I doubt this really changes anything, but it was a rant thread, and I honestly have no idea what I was trying to achieve with this thread.

Concerning the "Get rekt" "eZ" etc. stuff, I know that it can be punished if it gets out of hand, but it's the little stuff that can make a huge difference once it just piles up, and the way that it's sent, in the context of what happened in the game.

One thing that I would like to change in MCSG, is the way certain issues are handled. Right now they have a fairly efficient system for straightforward things like hacks, spamming, etc., but I'm talking about things like DDoSing, rumors, and other "work-arounds".
Perhaps I'm using the term "Loopholes" too loosely, as you said.
For example, rumors. I'm not privy to staff processes, but I've heard and seen rumors go unchecked for months. As far as I know, the staff team doesn't really have a way to deal with these things. The only time that I know of a staff member trying to prevent rumors from spreading was when I personally told them about it - I told them about it easily 9 months ago, and I heard it circulating again just a few weeks ago. (???)



In hindsight, I really shouldn't continue this train of thought. I'm way too tired
this post summarized: yeah, uh, you basically proved this entire thread inaccurate. XD

Nevertheless, I still do have ONE question: If I see a player provoking another player in the form of something such as "Get rekt", "eZ", "Get good", is that punishable in any way?
After this question is answered, I will be OK with having this thread locked if a staff member decides to.